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>From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
>Subject: CherryhList -- Sexism
>Date: Mon, 15 Feb 93 9:38:47 GMT

> From: zink@panix.com (David Zink)
> Subject: Re: The the great ongoing misogyny/misandry discussion

> MZB's writing, especially pre-Thendara Darkover, are
> among the most sexist (and unwittingly misogynist) things I have read.  
	I was never particularly keen on MZB. What irritates me is the
definite anti-feminism portrayed in things like Mercedi Lackey's book.
What really got me there was when she has these two headstrong, noble,
women as the central characters, yet when they stop at a farmhouse 
(which is dirty because the farmer's wife died years ago) they roll up
the sleves and dig into the "woman's work" like any peasant.
	Does anyone know if her and Cherryh are associated. Cherryh,
Lackey and Lesley Fish seem to make a triad, mentally for me. I don't know
why. Lackey and Fish's writing doesn't come close to Cherryh. It just
seems like they all used to dungeon together :-).

> Not to criticize too heavily though; despite their failure by modern
> standards, most of the old SF writers were notorious feminists and
> anti-racists by the standards of their day.  But SF stays in print a long
> time, and it shows.
	I've gone back and read some stuff I thought was wonderful
10 years ago and wondered what I ever saw in it. Society matures/develops
and people mature/develop.

> So many of the newer writers seem to have so little inherent sexism, that I
> think it is becoming a dead issue.
	I disagree. Perhaps in many of the newer writers you are reading it
is no longer an issue. This may be because you have refined your reading
choice to only select non-(likely to be)-sexist books. It would be true for
me to say that the majority of SF books I read are non-sexist but I am
very selective in what I read (Cherryh, Woman's Press SF, etc). I think the
normal dreck being produced is still rife with the sexism prevalent in
modern society.

> I should point out that Cherry's stuff is sometimes actively feminist...
> Male Hani are not what you think they are...
	Excellent point! I never thought of it that way. Insidiously
conciousness raising :-).

> As for creating twisted female characters, I am amazed that people can
> reference Cyteen without noticing that the Elder Ariane is among the most
> vicously twisted characters Cherryh ever wrote.
	Perhaps that is because she appears so, so, conventional? I think
it is that Ariane is nasty in a way that people are used to perceiving
in the normal world and don't conciously react to her. (Insidious, I say
again :-).
	Is Emory I a hero or an anti-hero? She is really a nasty piece
of work but she does great things for her society (or does she?).
Is she a hero with a few personality problems or is she an anti-hero
who only wreaks good that she can benefit from?

			Jo Grant
					Jo Grant
					jaymin@salmon.maths.tcd.ie

_______________________________________________________________________________
Jo Grant			| "It was our blood spilled on the stars."
jaymin@maths.tcd.ie		|	- Leslie Fish, "Mazianni"
Dublin, IRELAND			|