message 0546

• "Starchase": Rules discussion
• "Starchase"/"Company Wars" - map and jumppoints

>Subject: cherryhlist: starchase
>Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 10:30:04 CDT
>From: goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US)

Jo Jaquinta said the following:
> 
> 	CHERRYH MAILING LIST
> 
> 	Send articles to jaymin@maths.tcd.ie with "cherryhlist" somewhere
> on the subject line. Mailing is distributed more-or-less daily.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
> >Subject: CherryhList/MUD
> >Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 8:45:09 BST
> 
> 	I actually began to port The Company Wars to LambdaMoo a while
> ago. I got the ships and jump points programmed in but that was as far.
> I am at a new job now and can't run the moo. We're supposed to be installing
> Linux soon and I may port it there and begin again...
> 			Jo

Hi Jo, could you make available _all_ of the jump points from The
Company Wars please?


> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >From: Onno Meyer <Onno.Meyer@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de>
> >Subject: cherryhlist
> >Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1993 10:27:22 +0200 (MET DST)
> 
> > The map is more than likely stylized since it is a
> > children's game.  Possibly a picture of the station or
> > world.  I wonder if the different stations have different
> > number of storage slots?  Any idea about the names of the
> > various stations?  Perhaps there is some way to learn about
> > new null points so that you can take short cuts?
> >
> Somewhere there is a listing - I think in ML.

That explains why I can't find ML anywhere!


> > Perhaps in addition to "food", "spares & machines",
> > "luxuries", "raw materials", and "recycling parts" we could
> > also have "biomass" and "Azi" without making this too
> > complex?
> >
> I assumed biomass = foodstuff, and I didn't even think about adding
> population. Perhaps it is an idea, but only for the "advanced edition".

I was thinking that biomass was the raw material, and could be
converted to foodstuff or other things.  I feel like we're talking
with a high V differential!


> > > Stations, a limited number of goods and ships and money are distributed
> > > to the players, based on a list that gives the distributions based on 
> > > player numbers.
> > 
> > How many players should there be?  Does the range of 2 to 8
> > sound good?
> > 
> I would say more than 2 to make alliances and diplomacy possible,
> and 12 stations have to be distributed equally among them: 3,4 or 6.
> Of course it would be possible to add some Alliance stations or to
> ignore some Union stations.

Sounds good. 


> 
> > > Every turn starts with a "station" phase. If a station has food, it will
> > > consume one lot of food. Otherwise, it will not produce anything for this
> > > turn. In the second turn without food, a station dies. It is auctioned
> > > between the other players. 
> > 
> > As in when you loose your station, the other players can bid
> > to take it over?
> >
> That was my idea - it could stay dead, too, but that would limit the
> game board pretty fast. But there has to be some punishment for
> such carelessness. 

Perhaps the station could be dead for a number of turns, and then the
station would go up for auction with the origional player not being
able to take part in the auction.  If no one buys the station a random
time period will go by and then there will be another auction in which
everyone can take part.  If no one still buys the station, then after
another time period, the station reverts to the origional owner.
During the dead time period, nothing is produced by the station.


> > > If the station has parts&machines, it will consume one lot of them.      
> > > Otherwise, it will not produce anything, but there is no time-limit.
> > > If a station is producing, it can turn a number of lots of raw materials
> > > or recycling goods (2 lots recycling goods equal one lot raw materials)
> > > into luxuries, machines or food (that may be the players decision or be
> > > dependent on the station).
> > > Luxuries can be spend to increase production. Happy workers work better.
> > > To keep the game interesting, every station should have at least
> > > one item it has to import.
> >
> I forgot: Stations produce raw materials and recycling goods. Every 
> station produces recycling stuff, and some have mines. Foodstuff
> has to come from somewhere, too. To get biomass only from Cyteen 
> could be unbalancing.

Time dilation is in effect again...


> > > The next phase is the "ships" phase. The players throw dice for every 
> > > ship, and that is the number of jumps that ship can make. Whenever
> > > two ships meet or whenever a ship arrives at a station, the two can 
> > > transfer goods if the recipient has sufficient storage capacity.
> > 
> > I'm wondering if a player moves all of their ships before
> > the next person gets to move, or if each player gets to move
> > one ship at a time.  Another possibility is that each player
> > gets to move one ship one jump at a time.  I suspect that
> > the first case is true since this *is* a children's game.
> > 
> > Then again we could make this a slightly higher level game.
> > (yes, I'm talking about really making this game...)
> > 
> > Turn order could be something like:
> > 	1) feed stations.
> > 	2) set production for turn.
> > 	3) determine range for ships.
> > 	4) move ships up to max number of jumps.
> > 		a) trades as desired.
> > 		b) combat as desired.
> 
> Hey, I didn't think about that at all. If we play on a map of the Union,
> there would be a fleet to stop this, instantly.

Combat could be very simple with 2 possible results:  Grab cargo from
the victim or cause the victim's ship to loose the rest of the
movement for the turn.

> > Different size and abilities for different prices?  I'd
> > suspect that you might have choices like the following:
> > 
> Perhaps in the "advanced edition", but not in a childrens game.
> 
> > 	1) small merchant ship, lightly armored, slow,
> > 	   1 cargo unit.
> > 	2) medium merchant ship, lightly armored, slow,
> > 	   3 cargo units.
> > 	3) large merchant ship, lightly armored, slow,
> > 	   6 cargo units.
> > 
> > 	4) small merchant ship, better armor, fast,
> > 	   1 cargo unit.
> > 	5) medium merchant ship, better armor, fast,
> > 	   2 cargo units.
> > 	6) large merchant ship, better armor, fast,
> > 	   4 cargo units.
> > 
> > 	7) small warship, fast, no cargo.
> > 	8) medium warship, fast, 1 cargo unit.
> > 	9) large warship, fast, 2 cargo units.
> > 
> I assumed the players represent trading companies, not governments.
> You're talking about a wargame.

We could simplify it down to
	1) small merchant ship, 1 cargo unit
	2) medium merchant ship, 2 cargo units
	3) large merchant ship, 4 cargo units
	4) warship, no cargo units
> >
> > Depending on the number of points you can go to I'd suggest
> > a slow merchant ship gets 1D4 for movement, a fast merchant
> > get 2D4 for movement, and a warship gets 2D4+2 for movement.
> >
> That depends on the time you assume for a "turn" of the game.
> I would add a "+4" to each of these numbers to make ranges
> less random. Perhaps we should kill the dice completely, but
> they are mentioned and this seemed the most reasonable place
> for them.

I think the randomness of the number of jumps is important.  It takes
into account things such as repair time, r&r, loading time, etc.

> > Other ideas would be lots of null points that can be
> > discovered and claimed by various players.
> > 
> How can you claim jumppoints? You would have to defend them,
> and that's a wargame again.

I worded this badly, I intended to say something about learning new
jump points.  Other people could learn of the jump points, you could
sell information about jump points to the other players.  You could
even publically anounce the coordinates of the null point.

> > > At any time in the game, players can trade cargo, ships, stations or
> > > whatever (pay somebody not to trade with a third player :-) ). The
> > > price is negotiated between the players. Remember, even if cargo can
> > > be sold anytime, players must meet to deliver it.
> > >
> > >  Onno
> > 
> > Matt
> > 
> Onno again.

I finally found the 2 passages that deal with Starchase.  It seemed to
me that each turn the players would set their prices for a turn that
they would sell stuff at. 


One item we need to think about is the endgame.  What are the victory
conditions?  Are the victory conditions fixed, ie gain so much money,
so many bases, so many ships or some such?  Or are the victory
conditions sort of like in the game "Careers"  where everyone sets
their victory conditions?

Example:

Need to reach 1000 points:

Ships = 10 points each
Stations = 50 points each
Money = 100 unit = 1 point
Production types all = 1 point each

You set your personal victory conditions as:

	10 stations	= 500 points
	10 ships	= 100 points
	100,000 cash	= 100 points
	50 food		=  50 points
	25 spares	=  25 points
	75 luxuries	=  75 points
	50 raw mater	=  50 points
	50 recycleables	=  50 points
	25 biomass	=  25 points
	25 Azi		=  25 points
			 ===========
			 1000 points

Then everyone else is working towards a different set of victory
conditions.  I'd say that you'd need to set your victory conditions
before you learn which stations you control.  The length of the game
could be controled by the number of points needed to reach victory.
Please note that all of the above numbers are off the top of my head.


One thing to consider is why was there an advantage to two people
joining their fleets?

Matt

-- 
Matthew Goldman  E-mail: goldman@orac.cray.com Work: (612) 683-3061

My day today? Nothing major, just Xenon base gone, Scorpio gone, 
Tarrant dead, Tarrant alive and then I found out Blake sold us out.